[Radiance-general] Alternative shells for Windows

Tue May 19 02:58:02 PDT 2015

Hi Urtza,

Linux is preferable above windows for using Radiance. We have very good experiences with our students using a virtual linux machine under windows 7.
We are using the "Oracle VM VirtualBox Manager" with Ubuntu. For our students we have prepared an Image (Appliance) with all necessary programs in it for running Radiance, Evalglare and some handy scripts.

Kind regards,
Jan

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Alternative shells for Windows (WAS: Re: rcontrib for
      rendering - missing required modifier argument)
      (urtza.uriarte at upc.edu)
   2. Re: Alternative shells for Windows (WAS: Re: rcontrib for
      rendering - missing required modifier argument) (Guglielmetti, Robert)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 09:44:07 +0200
From: urtza.uriarte at upc.edu
To: Radiance general discussion <radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Alternative shells for Windows (WAS:
	Re: rcontrib for rendering - missing required modifier argument)
Message-ID:
	<20150518094407.Horde.0C5PemNiDyhyh_k0YuOZQUE at correu.upc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed";
	DelSp="Yes"

Hi everybody,

Thanks for your suggestions. I have a doubt for a month when I have started
using Radiance. Is Linux advisable to use for Radiance? Perhaps, it may in
the long run be better.

Kind regards!
Urtza.

"Guglielmetti, Robert" <Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov> escribi?:

> Hi Chris,
>
> The main advantages I see in using Git's Bash shell for Windows are
> smaller footprint, easier installation, and tighter integration. I
haven't
> done extensive testing, but it seems like the Git Bash shell gives
Windows
> users a more similar and compatible experience to that of the Unix user,
> potentially allowing folks to use things like Andy McNeil's tutorials,
> as-written.
>
> The installer is 17MB and just *works*, adding a shortcut to a "Git Bash"
> command prompt. Once fired up, you have access to your existing file
> system, and all the basic CLI tools a Unix user us used to (e.g. ls) are
> there and just work, along with things like wildcards. =) There's no
other
> system tuning to do. I haven't used or set up Cygwin in a long time but
> this Git shell is a lot easier than the Cygwin I've used. I still haven't
> tested any of the more esoteric Radiance command pipelines (such as
what's
> used to get view parameters passed to rcontrib), but ASSuming they work,
> coupled with a Windows Python or Ruby interpreter I'd bet you can get
> pretty close to the Unix experience on Windows with little brain damage
> now.
>
> Having said all that, there are still things that the Windows user gives
> up in RadianceLand. The built-in multithreading (in rcontrib, rtrace,
> rpict, et al.) doesn't work; there are a few remaining Radiance commands
> that are written in csh so those (probably (might?)) won't work; native
> manpage support is lacking; and Roland had to use some sub-optimal
> functions to get all the photon map stuff to build on Windows. Still, I
> think we've come a long way?
>
> - Rob
>
> On 5/15/15, 11:40 AM, "Christopher Rush" <Christopher.Rush at arup.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>> Getting off-topic, but not sure if it warrants a separate thread... you
>> imply that we can run Radiance commands in the Git for Windows bash
>> shell. Is there an advantage to doing so, in comparison to Cygwin (which
>> I have used in the past)? Both would have the clear advantages of being
>> able to use more powerful scripted commands when compared to the Windows
>> cmd prompt, but Git-bash is more lightweight while Cygwin would be more
>> powerful (for things unrelated to Radiance?)? In both cases install
>> according to normal Windows Radiance installation and adjust paths as
>> necessary in each environment?
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Guglielmetti, Robert [mailto:Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov]
>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:55 AM
>>
>> Welp, it appears that the '*' wildcard expansion does not work with
>> Windows in the standard shell, even though the wildcard does work with
>> other internal commands, such as 'type' (Windows-speak for 'cat'). As
>> they say: WTF?
>>
>> - Rob
>>
>> P.S. The wildcard does expand correctly with pcompos in a Cygwin shell,
>> so there's that.
>>
>> P.P.S. You can install a lightweight Cygwin shell by simply installing
>> Git for Windows (https://msysgit.github.io/). You get a proper BASH
shell
>> in Windows with minimal effort. Highly recommended.
>>
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>> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:52:07 +0000
From: "Guglielmetti, Robert" <Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov>
To: Radiance general discussion <radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Alternative shells for Windows (WAS:
	Re: rcontrib for rendering - missing required modifier argument)
Message-ID: <D17F657B.195A3%Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"

If you can get ahold of a Unix-based system, be it a Mac running OSX or a Linux system, your experience will likely be better, yes. But I do think that with the latest installer we provide here (https://github.com/NREL/Radiance/releases/tag/5.0.a.3) and the "Git Bash shell" from here (https://msysgit.github.io/), you could get pretty darn close to the same experience as you would on *nix.

Good luck!

- Rob

On 5/18/15, 1:44 AM, "urtza.uriarte at upc.edu<mailto:urtza.uriarte at upc.edu>" <urtza.uriarte at upc.edu<mailto:urtza.uriarte at upc.edu>> wrote:

Hi everybody,

Thanks for your suggestions. I have a doubt for a month when I have started using Radiance. Is Linux advisable to use for Radiance? Perhaps, it may in the long run be better.

Kind regards!
Urtza.

"Guglielmetti, Robert" <Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov<mailto:Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov>> escribi?:

Hi Chris,

The main advantages I see in using Git's Bash shell for Windows are
smaller footprint, easier installation, and tighter integration. I haven't
done extensive testing, but it seems like the Git Bash shell gives Windows
users a more similar and compatible experience to that of the Unix user,
potentially allowing folks to use things like Andy McNeil's tutorials,
as-written.

The installer is 17MB and just *works*, adding a shortcut to a "Git Bash"
command prompt. Once fired up, you have access to your existing file
system, and all the basic CLI tools a Unix user us used to (e.g. ls) are
there and just work, along with things like wildcards. =) There's no other
system tuning to do. I haven't used or set up Cygwin in a long time but
this Git shell is a lot easier than the Cygwin I've used. I still haven't
tested any of the more esoteric Radiance command pipelines (such as what's
used to get view parameters passed to rcontrib), but ASSuming they work,
coupled with a Windows Python or Ruby interpreter I'd bet you can get
pretty close to the Unix experience on Windows with little brain damage
now.

Having said all that, there are still things that the Windows user gives
up in RadianceLand. The built-in multithreading (in rcontrib, rtrace,
rpict, et al.) doesn't work; there are a few remaining Radiance commands
that are written in csh so those (probably (might?)) won't work; native
manpage support is lacking; and Roland had to use some sub-optimal
functions to get all the photon map stuff to build on Windows. Still, I
think we've come a long way?

- Rob

On 5/15/15, 11:40 AM, "Christopher Rush" <Christopher.Rush at arup.com<mailto:Christopher.Rush at arup.com>> wrote:

Rob,
Getting off-topic, but not sure if it warrants a separate thread... you
imply that we can run Radiance commands in the Git for Windows bash
shell. Is there an advantage to doing so, in comparison to Cygwin (which
I have used in the past)? Both would have the clear advantages of being
able to use more powerful scripted commands when compared to the Windows
cmd prompt, but Git-bash is more lightweight while Cygwin would be more
powerful (for things unrelated to Radiance?)? In both cases install
according to normal Windows Radiance installation and adjust paths as
necessary in each environment?

-Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Guglielmetti, Robert [mailto:Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov<mailto:Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov>]
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:55 AM

Welp, it appears that the '*' wildcard expansion does not work with
Windows in the standard shell, even though the wildcard does work with
other internal commands, such as 'type' (Windows-speak for 'cat'). As
they say: WTF?

- Rob

P.S. The wildcard does expand correctly with pcompos in a Cygwin shell,
so there's that.

P.P.S. You can install a lightweight Cygwin shell by simply installing
Git for Windows (https://msysgit.github.io/). You get a proper BASH shell
in Windows with minimal effort. Highly recommended.

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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

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