[Radiance-general] help pfilt and low values dgp

Jan Wienold jan.wienold at epfl.ch
Wed Aug 12 09:42:49 PDT 2015


Hi Jasper and Alstan,

I just found this in the revision-logging of the evalglare source 
code(it is such a long time ago that I could not remember...) :

/* evalglare.c, v1.11 2013/01/17  wienold
    - fix output bug of dgp, when using -i or -I
    */

are you using an older version of evalglare than v1.11 which is from 
January 2013??

best,

Jan

Am 8/11/15 um 5:33 PM schrieb J. Alstan Jakubiec:
> Hi Jasper,
>
> This is one of the tricky aspects of doing glare analysis with your 
> own HDR images. A couple of pointers are below,
>
>   * You will need to crop your image to a square aspect about the
>     image center using the pcompos
>     <http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/man_html/pcompos.1.html> tool.
>     There was a helpful discussion on maintaining image exposure
>     values while doing this here
>     <http://www.radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/2011-March/007701.html>.
>   * The -vv and -vh parameters are just best guesses according the HDR
>     generation software. Once you have cropped the image, you will
>     want to open the resulting HDR in a text editor and manually
>     change the header 'VIEW' field to include -vta -vv 180 -vh 180.
>     You may also specify them via the command line at this point, as
>     you have done. I like to keep it associated with the image.
>   * After that, unless I am forgetting something (others can chime
>     in), you are ready to run evalglare. I would run it with the -d
>     flag, which will report a lot of details. Most usefully, it
>     reports illuminance as derived from the image, which you can
>     compare to your measured Ev value to check the validity of the
>     HDR. If your HDR is well-calibrated, not inputting the measured
>     illuminance value should be perfectly accurate.
>   * I suspect that inputting measured illuminance is somewhat broken
>     in the current version of evalglare as I have the same problem
>     that you do. One option is to use the -1 option to evalglare,
>     which will return only a single DGP value. It seems to avoid this
>     error.
>     > evalglare -1 -i 2500 image.hdr
>
> By the way, to avoid some of this cropping and exposure value pain, I 
> use an image-processing tool (like PIL for Python) these days that can 
> maintain EXIF data while cropping the source jpeg files. Though 
> perhaps the cure is worse than the disease in this case..
>
> Best,
> Alstan
>
> On 8/11/2015 11:08 PM, Jasper Overduin wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have changed my lens to one with 180 circular view to do a contrast 
>> analysis (hdrscope) and meanwhile the glare analysis in evalglare. If 
>> i use the commands in evalglare getinfo i get the (HDR composed with 
>> photosphere on a mac, calibrated with luminance pistol) i get a value 
>> for the lens -vv and -vh which is not over 100, with a lens of 180. I 
>> can imagine that the photo ratio and the lens are not the same and 
>> that causes this problem. But when I enter the external measured Ev, 
>> the value the dgp goes somehow to zero. The fact that the gdp is zero 
>> with a maximum luminance of 5600 cd/m2 and Ev of 2500 lux makes me a 
>> bit suspicious. How accurate is the result of the dgp without 
>> external vertical lux? is it possible to use this value?
>>
>> hdr files and printscreens of evalglare 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei1y4d2v6hapdsr/AACgVMPd1o0EdK-0q8CFvUGga?dl=0 
>>
>>
>> Greetings Jasper
>>
>>
>> *
>> *
>> *Jasper Overduin*
>> MSc. Building Technology graduate student at Delft University of 
>> Technology
>>
>>
>> *S* Groenhoevelaan 3
>> *P*2343 BP Oegstgeest
>> *T* +31 6 15 64 48 56 (NL)
>> *T* +56 9 51 11 76 48 (CL)
>> *E *overduin.jasper at gmail.com <mailto:overduin.jasper at gmail.com>
>> *Skype *jasper.overduin
>>
>> On 1 May 2015 at 12:15, Jan Wienold <jan.wienold at epfl.ch 
>> <mailto:jan.wienold at epfl.ch>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Jasper,
>>
>>     I briefly looked at your image - for sure you get a low DGP value
>>     if your illuminance at camera (or eye) level is only about
>>     300lux... It is not the matter of the fish eye lens it is a
>>     matter of your lighting condition.
>>     When I remember correctly, for the experiments I did for my PhD,
>>     the people adjusted the blinds in a way, that they had 2500-3000
>>     lux at the eye level and they were less than 20% of them
>>     dissatisfied. So a value of 300 means one order of magnitude less
>>     light at the eye level and a much lower adaptation level.
>>     So I definitely understand the low DGP value in that case. The
>>     images themselves look reasonable, so I don't think there is a
>>     problem in calibration/processing so far (at least not for these
>>     low luminance levels-it might be more tricky to calibrate for the
>>     high luminance values when you get stray-light from the multiple
>>     lenses).
>>
>>     If all your images are like that it means you have a very low
>>     daylight contribution at the place you measure. I'm not sure if
>>     DGP is then the right way to measure glare in that case - as I
>>     wrote it is made more for the daylight oriented workplace with
>>     higher levels and also to take into account very high luminances
>>     (e.g. sun or specular reflections of the sun). DGP might be
>>     modified in future, but these experiments are just starting.
>>
>>     Jan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Am 4/30/15 um 10:41 PM schrieb Jasper Overduin:
>>>
>>>         Thank you for the fast reply. We are still having some
>>>         problems with the outcome of Evalglare. With an external
>>>         luxometre we have done some tests now. The DGP is still very
>>>         low or zero. It seems that in almost all the case the DGP is
>>>         low. In literature we read that values above 20% are normal.
>>>         What do you think? is the data much better if we use a full
>>>         180 degree lens?
>>>
>>>     .hdr file https://www.dropbox.com/s/l10x7tri49btr8r/ff.hdr?dl=0
>>>     print screen cmd
>>>     https://www.dropbox.com/s/yv1lamhiirjhvxq/imp%20pan.jpg?dl=0
>>>     test.pic https://www.dropbox.com/s/nspdu01477mchsz/test.pic?dl=0
>>>
>>>         Greetings Jasper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         *
>>>         *
>>>         *Jasper Overduin*
>>>         MSc Building Technology graduate student at Delft University
>>>         of Technology*
>>>         *
>>>
>>>         *S* Groenhoevelaan 3
>>>         *P*2343 BP Oegstgeest
>>>         *T* +31 6 15 64 48 56 (NL)
>>>         *T* +56 9 51 11 76 48 (CL)
>>>         *E *overduin.jasper at gmail.com <mailto:overduin.jasper at gmail.com>
>>>         *Skype *jasper.overduin
>>>
>>>         On 30 April 2015 at 13:55, Jan Wienold <jan.wienold at epfl.ch
>>>         <mailto:jan.wienold at epfl.ch>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hi Jasper,
>>>
>>>             why are you using -vth -vh 140 -vv 80 when in your
>>>             header of the HDR image the view is specified as  -vtv
>>>             -vh 98.797409 -vv 75.402067 ?
>>>             Manipulating the lense type is really dangerous - in
>>>             that case you change from a perspective view to a
>>>             hemispherical fish eye view, without changing the image!!
>>>
>>>             If I apply evalglare for your image I get 0.17 as DGP
>>>             (which is still very low, but you have only 2000cd/m2 as
>>>             maximum value, so this can be expected). Be aware, that
>>>             DGP accounts only for glare from a high amount of
>>>             daylight and/or spots of extreme luminances
>>>             (>50000cd/m2), but not for contrasted glare between task
>>>             (e.g. Monitor) and immediate surroundings for lower
>>>             adaptation levels. This is subject of current research
>>>             (also here at EPFL) and there might be an extension of
>>>             the DGP in future, depending on the outcome of new
>>>             experiments.
>>>
>>>             Back to the lens-type:
>>>             It is extremely important, that the right view type is
>>>             given to evalglare, otherwise ALL calculated values (it
>>>             doesn't matter if this is evalglare or findglare) are
>>>             wrong. These errors could be huge, more than 100% for
>>>             calculating the illuminance out of a 180 degree image.
>>>
>>>             If you manipulate an image by pcomb, in general the view
>>>             is marked as "invalid" in the header, because with that
>>>             tool you could manipulate the image in a way, that the
>>>             original view is not valid any more. This is why from
>>>             evalglare version 1.0 on a check on the header was
>>>             included, because many people were creating wrong
>>>             headers without knowing it and then evalglare was
>>>             calculating wrong values, when the header was invalid.
>>>
>>>             In addition for calculating the DGP it is important to
>>>             have the illuminance at camera level. evalglare
>>>             calculates this value out of the image. But if the image
>>>             does not cover 180 degree, then the calculated value for
>>>             the illuminance is too low. For that reason, the -i
>>>             option was included, so you can provide the illuminance
>>>             to evalglare (when you measure it with an illuminance
>>>             sensor).
>>>
>>>             So in your case, you should measure the illuminance just
>>>             besides the lens.
>>>             Then (in case this is the right lens description) you
>>>             should use
>>>             evalglare -i LUXVALUE -vtv -vh 98.797409 -vv 75.402067
>>>             IMAGE_NAME
>>>             or better, if your task is always at the same place:
>>>             evalglare -i LUXVALUE -vtv -vh 98.797409 -vv 75.402067 
>>>             -T 395 230 .6 -c CHECK_FILE_PICTURE IMAGE_NAME
>>>
>>>             good luck!
>>>
>>>             Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             Am 4/30/15 um 6:04 PM schrieb Jasper Overduin:
>>>>             Somehow cant use the command pfilt or change the pcomb,
>>>>             does this has to do with the program Radiance? I have
>>>>             installed the version of windows from the site, with
>>>>             evalglare v1.11windows . The problem is that I have
>>>>             composed a .hdr (out of 7 jpg on a mac) and after using
>>>>             the command c:/HDRI>evalglare -vth -vh 140 -vv 80
>>>>             image.hdr all the dgp results are really low, less than
>>>>             5%. The problem can be in the .hdr (calibrated as well)
>>>>             or is in the way evalglare is not working as it shoot
>>>>             on my computer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             *.hdr file* (post-it is calibration point 167,98)
>>>>             https://www.dropbox.com/s/4z69y358yt8ii4z/1_sv_am.hdr?dl=0
>>>>             *images* original
>>>>             https://www.dropbox.com/sh/adyyxjkv6eykyek/AAC96QUTpLh_Ef2U8Mppki8ta?dl=0
>>>>             *command printscreen*
>>>>             https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pbn105p0z0iinu/Imp%20pan.jpg?dl=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Need the help!
>>>>
>>>>             Greetings Jacobus
>>>>
>>>>             *
>>>>             *
>>>>             *Jasper Overduin*
>>>>             MSc Building Technology graduate student at Delft
>>>>             University of Technology*
>>>>             *
>>>>
>>>>             *S* Groenhoevelaan 3
>>>>             *P*2343 BP Oegstgeest
>>>>             *T* +31 6 15 64 48 56 (NL)
>>>>             *T* +56 9 51 11 76 48 (CL)
>>>>             *E *overduin.jasper at gmail.com
>>>>             <mailto:overduin.jasper at gmail.com>
>>>>             *Skype *jasper.overduin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             Radiance-general mailing list
>>>>             Radiance-general at radiance-online.org
>>>>             <mailto:Radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
>>>>             http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             Dr.-Ing.  Jan Wienold
>>>             Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL)
>>>             EPFL ENAC IA LIPID
>>>
>>>             http://people.epfl.ch/jan.wienold
>>>             LE 1 111 (Office)
>>>             Phone    +41 21 69 30849
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
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>>>             <mailto:Radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
>>>             http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>     -- 
>>     Dr.-Ing.  Jan Wienold
>>     Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL)
>>     EPFL ENAC IA LIPID
>>
>>     http://people.epfl.ch/jan.wienold
>>     LE 1 111 (Office)
>>     Phone    +41 21 69 30849
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Radiance-general mailing list
>>     Radiance-general at radiance-online.org
>>     <mailto:Radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
>>     http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Dr.-Ing.  Jan Wienold
Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL)
EPFL ENAC IA LIPID

http://people.epfl.ch/jan.wienold
LE 1 111 (Office)
Phone    +41 21 69 30849

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