[Radiance-general] Radiance-general Digest, Vol 82, Issue 14
Arunabha Sau
runabha at gmail.com
Wed Dec 15 09:48:50 PST 2010
Howdy all!
Did anybody happen to try COMFEN (
http://windows.lbl.gov/software/comfen/comfen.html)?
It's a simulation program for only windows and lighting. I just saw it and
wanted to use it.
If anybody can put some good/bad words for this program, that would be
awesome.
Thanks!
Aru
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, <
radiance-general-request at radiance-online.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: glaze script limitation (Lars O. Grobe)
> 2. Re: glaze script limitation (Achim.geissler)
> 3. Re: glaze script limitation (Jack de Valpine)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:42:49 +0100
> From: "Lars O. Grobe" <grobe at gmx.net>
> To: Radiance general discussion <radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
> Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
> Message-ID: <4D08A9B9.70906 at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi all!
>
> > The trouble is one of combinatorics. Unless we incorporate a
> > database containing all the possible front and back coating
> > combinations, or a model like Optics has for computing the combined
> > effect, we can't produce the correct output. What we really need is
> > a more general glazing modeler that can account for every possible
> > configuration and produces a reliable Radiance material. Maybe
> > Window6 will provide this at some point, but we aren't there, yet.
>
> A related question... is anyone aware of tools compareable to Optics and
> Window that follow a more open approach of software? I have to boot into
> a Windows installation (and Windows does not easily boot in virtual
> machines any more since Vista) each time I want to start one of these
> tools, which even require administrator rights to install on a Windows
> machine. Unfortunately it looks as no attempt had been made at all
> during development to separate the database, calculation and
> GUI/controller code, so I do not expect these tools to become more open
> or platform independent. So did you ever come accross any development in
> these fields?
>
> Cheers, Lars.
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:43:18 +0100
> From: "Achim.geissler" <achim.geissler at intergga.ch>
> To: Radiancegeneraldiscussion <radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
> Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
> Message-ID: <bf03e22597ff415837d397a0ccefcdee at 212.203.77.242>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Lars
>
> one tool that may possibly be a bit more open is WIS. In any case, off and
> on there is an error message from a "solver". However, I have no idea if
> the
> code would be accessible. WIS originated from a european project and so the
> code may be available to people affiliated to european research institutes.
>
> Best
> Achim
>
>
>
> --------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Von: "Radiance general discussion"
> An: "Radiance general discussion"
> Betreff: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
> Datum: 15/12/10 13:15
>
> Hi all!
>
> > The trouble is one of combinatorics. Unless we incorporate a
> > database containing all the possible front and back coating
> > combinations, or a model like Optics has for computing the combined
> > effect, we can't produce the correct output. What we really need is
> > a more general glazing modeler that can account for every possible
> > configuration and produces a reliable Radiance material. Maybe
> > Window6 will provide this at some point, but we aren't there, yet.
>
> A related question... is anyone aware of tools compareable to Optics and
> Window that follow a more open approach of software? I have to boot into
> a Windows installation (and Windows does not easily boot in virtual
> machines any more since Vista) each time I want to start one of these
> tools, which even require administrator rights to install on a Windows
> machine. Unfortunately it looks as no attempt had been made at all
> during development to separate the database, calculation and
> GUI/controller code, so I do not expect these tools to become more open
> or platform independent. So did you ever come accross any development in
> these fields?
>
> Cheers, Lars.
>
>
>
>
>
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> Radiance-general at radiance-online.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:59:35 -0500
> From: Jack de Valpine <jedev at visarc.com>
> To: Radiance general discussion <radiance-general at radiance-online.org>
> Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
> Message-ID: <4D08F3F7.3060804 at visarc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Francois,
>
> As Greg pointed out, using different clear glass specifications for each
> layer would really complicate things. Note the "clear" glass
> specification is really to establish a default reflectance and
> transmittance for the uncoated faced in the system. Color, Rf, Rb and
> Transmittance are derived from the other specifications (eg for SunGuard
> Ag 43 or SunGuard SN 62) in this case. Have you tried defining a
> material based on the exported data from Optics?
>
> Here is what I did:
>
> Export individually from Optics:
>
> SGAG43Y6.grd (3156)
> SGSN62C6.grd (3116)
> Clear_60.GRD (3016)
>
> Then get photopic T, Rf and Rb for reference from Optics 5 for the whole
> IGU:
>
> Rf = .178
> Rb = .107
> T = .228
>
> Note that the script (optics2glazedb) is very strict on formatting. So
> the naming in Clear_60.rad:
>
> Clear_60_glass
> Clear_60_front
> Clear_60_back
>
> needs to have the first "_" removed to result in:
>
> Clear60_glass
> Clear60_front
> Clear60_back
>
> I suppose this could easily enough be fixed with a call to awk or perl
> to fix this type of thing on the fly.
>
> Now with Clear_60 fixed do:
>
> optics2glazedb Clear_60.rad SGAG43Y6.rad SGSN62C6.rad > francois.db
>
> Now run glaze:
>
> glaze -f francois.db
>
> build a 2 pane system as follows:
>
> 1. Clear60
> 2. SGAG43Y6
> 3. SGSN62C6
> 4. Clear60
>
> This results in the following definition:
>
> ############################################
> # Glazing produced by Radiance glaze script
> # $Revision: 2.8 $
> # Loaded: francois.db
> # Wed Dec 15 11:14:23 EST 2010
> # Material surface normal points to interior
> # Number of panes in system: 2
> # Exterior surface s1 type: Clear60
> # Inner surface s2 type: SGAG43Y6
> # Inner surface s3 type: SGSN62C6
> # Interior surface s4 type: Clear60
> # Exterior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.177978104
> # Interior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.108662425
> # Normal hemispherical transmittance: 0.225458181
> #
> void BRTDfunc francois
> 10
>
> if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.052),ft(0.664),fr(0.083)),cr(fr(0.145),ft(0.295),fr(0.036)))
>
> if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.076),ft(0.708),fr(0.067)),cr(fr(0.177),ft(0.339),fr(0.076)))
>
> if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.11),ft(0.604),fr(0.162)),cr(fr(0.211),ft(0.333),fr(0.113)))
> ft(0.664)*ft(0.295)
> ft(0.708)*ft(0.339)
> ft(0.604)*ft(0.333)
> 0 0 0
> glaze2.cal
> 0
> 9
> 0 0 0
> 0 0 0
> 0 0 0
>
> Although I am not sure what kind of rounding error is acceptable in this
> case, the hemispherical front/back reflectances and transmittance seem
> to be well in the ballpark. If you want to go further you can look at
> color, reflectance, and transmittance with a simple scene using a glow
> source with unit radiance (eg 1 1 1). Doing this yields measures as
> follows:
>
> Rf = .181
> Rb = .109
> T = .227
>
> So here is what we get in summary:
>
>
> Optics Calculated
> Radiance Glaze Calculated
> Radiance Rpict Measured
> Rf
> .178
> .178
> .181
> Rb
> .107
> .109
> .109
> T
> .228
> .225
> .227
>
>
> A further piece of information that might be interesting is to obtain
> the manufacturers calculated photopic Rf, Rb, and T for the system. I
> have noticed that there can be small discrepancies between performance
> data on sites and what Optics calculates.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Jack de Valpine
>
> --
> # Jack de Valpine
> # president
> #
> # visarc incorporated
> # http://www.visarc.com
> #
> # channeling technology for superior design and construction
>
>
> On 12/14/2010 5:47 PM, Fran?ois Cantin wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I would like to model a double glazing system like the following:
> >
> > first pane
> >
> > surface 1: Crystal gray (Optics database number: 3056)
> >
> > surface 2: Crystal gray with a SunGuard Ag 43 coating (Optics: 3156)
> >
> > second pane
> >
> > surface 3: Clear glass with a SunGuard SuperNeutral (SN) 62 coating
> > (Optics: 3116)
> >
> > surface 4: Clear glass (Optics: 3016)
> >
> > Using the Optics2glazedb script provided by Jack de Valpine, I'm able
> > to create a custom database which contain all of the above
> > surfaces/layers and can be read by the Glaze script.
> >
> > However, the Glaze script, used to combine the surfaces and generate a
> > usable material definition, force the user to select at least one
> > clear glass to compose each pane (surface 1 or 2 must be clear AND
> > surface 3 or 4 must be clear). Moreover, the clear glass must be the
> > same for both panes and must be the first one on the list provided
> > when running the Glaze script.
> >
> > My question is:
> >
> > If I bypass the ''if structures'' constraining the composition of the
> > panes in order to allow the selection of two different uncoated glass,
> > can I expect the output to be still valid ?
> >
> > /.../
> >
> > /#if ($s1t != 1 && $s2t != 1) then/
> >
> > / #echo "One surface of each pane must be $sn_arr[1]"/
> >
> > ///#exit 1/
> >
> > /#endif/
> >
> > /.../
> >
> > //
> >
> > //
> >
> > /.../
> >
> > /#if ($s3t != 1 && $s4t != 1) then/
> >
> > / #echo "One surface of each pane must be $sn_arr[1]"/
> >
> > ///#exit 1/
> >
> > /#endif/
> >
> > /.../
> >
> > Without such bypass, generating a glazing system like the one
> > described above seems impossible.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help,
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> >
> > *Fran?ois Cantin, M Arch, MSc Arch
> > *
> > *Hudon Julien* associes,
> >
> > 1175 Lavigerie, suite 400, Ste-Foy(Qu?bec) G1V 4P1
> > T?l: (418) 653-8484 #224, Fax:(418) 653-6189
> > E-mail: fcantin at hudonjulien.com <mailto:fcantin at hudonjulien.com>
> > Site web: www.hudonjulien.com <http://www.hudonjulien.com/>
> >
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> End of Radiance-general Digest, Vol 82, Issue 14
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